Jun 11, 2009

New Update/Healing Josiah through diet and natural Methods? Holistic doctor? Email address change



Our email address has changed to BeautyForAshes5@att.net please change in your address book, effective immediately.

Hello Friends,
Yesterday we went in to get labs for Josiah. He is such a great easy going kiddo. The nurses check his blood pressure and usually they get a bad reading on his arm so when he saw the monitor he immediately pulled up his little pant leg. He hands his arm over even though he knows they'll draw blood, he doesn't like it but he seems to sense that it is for his benefit, even though he sheds a few tears,
he obeys.. I pray he is as trusting in His walk with the LORD. We are often times asked by God to do things that we don't like and even that are painful but we know it's for our own good. He is SO sweet, friendly and the nurses and doctors are so smitten with his happy disposition and sweet personality.

He didn't need a transfusion, but he is low so we go back for testing again on Friday. Now every little fever or small bruise has me on alert and more prayerful and I have always been a very laid back mama. I did get to speak with a doctor. From what I understand, his cells/blood are aplastic but they hope it is just his body recovering from a virus. (so do we) They did mention something that gave me cause for concern. They will monitor him continuously until June 27th. if at that time his bone marrow doesn't heal and kick into gear, they'll give him another Bone Marrow Biopsy and Aspiration and likely diagnose him as having Apalstic Anemia.;-( From there we would begin treatments which include drugs and possibly bone marrow transplant. ;-(

We are PRAYING to the Lord Jesus that this is not the case and he is just recovering from a virus. This is actually the illness that one of the doctors said is worse than leukemia. Silver lining... God's timing for this is incredible. If this ends up being AA, He planned it all perfectly that I would be due at this time, that Josiah would get sick right before birth to warn us to bank the cord blood, and that Huatzin would be home to help me with the children.

We have been praying about Josiah's situation and really wanting to take a more proactive role in seeing our son healed. I have been looking into Hallelujah Acres , juicing, supplements, and other raw based nutritional type of things to try to heal my little boy. The doctors don't seem to know what is causing his platelets and blood cells to decrease or what is making it so that his body isn't producing all that it needs to, and I have until the 27th to try and kick start his marrow before more invasive and serious treatments. These are treatments we desperately want to avoid.

As I was praying about this, God recently provided funds for us via a GENEROUS gift by Vineyard Christian Community Church of La Habra that has allowed me to purchase items that will help me try to heal his body naturally. ( more on God's AMAZING provision next post! )

Can you please email me if you have information on healing through nutrition for toddler age children? I'd love to hear from families that have done this successfully. Please contact us if you have cured yourself or a family member with Aplastic Anemia or similar blood disorder naturally.

Also I was checking into holistic type doctors in or near Orange County. I am not quite sure what to look for. I am guessing I need someone that has experience with blood type /platelet disorders. If anyone has experience with dealing with or choosing Nautropathic/Holistic type doctors, can you please assist me? What is at
I should look for? What type of questions should I ask? I know quite a few that I have seen online seem to be rooted in New Age, evolution, and eastern medicine. I am trying to avoid new age type of treatments. Thank you so much for your prayer, support, advice, and encouragement. Love, Alida and the Rodriguez Family.

Jun 10, 2009

A way to help...

From a sweet friend/sister in the Lord Stacy. She asked me to post this.

As the news of Josiah began to spread to all of our friends, many emails and calls started happening. Everyone wanted to know how they could help. As I prayed and ask the Lord how we could help, this is what He continually put on my heart...go here to check it out :) http://mycupoverfloweth.blogspot.com/ The first and foremost way to help is pray and spread the word but if the Lord is leading you to help in another way...here's one option :)
Blessings, stacy

Jun 5, 2009

Another Transfusion/ no results. ;-(




Yesterday was a day that didn't go as planned. we got the family up really early, dropped off the kids at a friends house,(Thanks Sue) went to the hospital to get what we thought were the results of Josiah's medical issues. I didn't sleep much that night as I kept tossing and turning anticipating the following day and being uncomfortable being so huge in pregnancy. I figured the Lord wanted me up and praying/ reading His word, so I did. I was really blessed over and over by
Psalm 94:17 Unless the LORD [had been] my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence. When I said, My foot slippeth; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up. In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul."

When we got to the hospital, they wanted new blood work for Josiah and told us that no doctor was scheduled to see us or even there. We explained to them how we were told that we'd get the results for his illness. They mentioned they'd have someone call us. You should have seen Josiah's face when they took his blood. He didn't flinch at all but then turned and pointed to the needle looking confused as if to say "WHAT! i thought we were DONE with this!" It was pretty cute. After we left from picking up the kids they called us to go back as his platelets were low and he needed a transfusion.

Josiah was sleeping as we checked in so I BEGGED them to let me keep him sleeping in my sling while they put in the line for the transfusion. He stayed asleep for several minutes while they dug all around his veins but the couldn't get it in properly, (it was nauseating to watch) before he woke up pretty peeved with all of us! CHOC is very neat at all that they do to keep the children comfortable and happy. They had two volenteer dogs come in to say hi, which thrilled Josiah. They mentioned he has platelets of 16,000 not the original 15,000 and that normal is 100,000-150,000 so I'm thinking the original nurse must have been speaking of adults not children when she mentioned normal being 200,000.

I asked the doctor what they thought he had and they said he could just still be recovering. I asked if they ruled out Aplastic Anemia and they said no. They also mentioned maybe having to do another Bone Marrow Aspiration and biopsy. ;-( I honestly don't think they have a clue, or at least they aren't telling us until they know for certain, maybe for liability reasons? I'm guessing we'll be going back to CHOC for labs and transfusions every 5 days or so, until they figure out what's wrong... A sweet mama in one of my groups offered for me to have her father ( a doctor at UCI) give a second opinion. We are praying about it. I am starting to think we may be in this for a long haul. I got sort of down about it today as I started thinking about how this all is coming at our family at once. When will God help Huatzin get a job? Should we try to move to a smaller home in the meantime or stay put? Will I have to bring Josiah every week to the hospital for constant transfusions and testing all while holding him and a newborn? Will I have to constantly ask friends to watch my other 3 children while he gets treatment? Or bring them with? I reason that I need to not worry about tomorrow and take each moment by moment as it comes, sort of cross the bridge when we get to it...

I am feeling weary and need to keep my eyes fixed on Jesus and not the circumstances because I get so overwhelmed when I look at the situation or try to figure out solutions on my own. God needs only to speak the Word and my baby would be healed and because He hasn't then the purpose he has for this has not yet been fulfilled. My happy little guy ( we call him Joyful Josiah) has been crying lately and I'm sure it's because he doesn't understand all that's going on and this is scary for him. It breaks my mama heart. It must break God's too. I don't even pray for the when of when everything should happen, Huatzin getting a job, giving birth, and answers for this health issue because I trust that His timing and plan is going to be better than mine and He sees the whole picture. Now it's just Help us to be in your will. Show us your will for us Lord. May His purposes prevail. Alida w4

I am always content with what happens; for I know that what God chooses is better than what I choose. -- Epictetus

I have held many things in my hands, and have lost them all; but whatever I have placed in God's hands, that I still possess. -- Martin Luther

I may no longer depend on pleasant impulses to bring me before the Lord. I must rather respond to principles I know to be right, whether I feel them to be enjoyable or not. -- Jim Elliot

The task ahead of us is never as great as the power behind us.-- Author Unknown

We need never shout across the spaces to an absent God. He is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most secret thoughts. -- A. W. Tozer

Jun 4, 2009

URGENT! Please read- RE: Josiah Rodriguez


From my friend Erin at Erin Jones Photography! God has been so gracious to surround us with such caring compassionate friends! We are so blessed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please feel free to forward this to as many people as possible...
Hi Friends!
Many of you have been in a prayer loop/update for one of my best friends & her family, especially her 2 year old Josiah "JoJo".

Last week, Josiah was hospitalized with a sudden onset of an unexplained case of bruising all over his body, nose bleeds, vomiting & fever. He was immediately admitted into the care of the CHOC Oncology ward, who performed extensive tests for numerous known diseases, including Leukemia.
Although he has been in the care of the outstanding staff at CHOC, we sometimes learn that despite the amazing advances of medical technology these days, some things are still left undiagnosed or excused as a mysterious "virus."
They discharged Jojo on Monday, saying he appears healthy enough to go home, but still with no clear explanation or diagnosis of the symptoms.
A few options have been floating around as far as diseases go, "Aplastic Anemia" being one of them (for more information go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aplastic_anemia,) but they remain unclear, at least until Thursday, when they will have more test results.

In the meantime, Alida, (amazing mother of 4, including twins) is pregnant with their fifth baby, due this Friday.
To add fuel to flame, Huatzin (incredibly devoted husband/father to this quiver) has been laid off of a union job as a plumber.
As you can imagine, this has (and continues to be) a scary time in their lives.
This incredible family has had to face a hard decision to bank their unborn child's cord blood as a "life insurance" policy for their family. If the diagnosis for Jojo is in fact Aplastic Anemia, it is treatable with a cord blood transfusion! (For more information go here http://www.viacord.com/mia.htm)

Therefor, they has prayerfully decided this is the smartest decision for their family, but is in need of financial assistance...
The full cost of the Cord Blood program is $2195. Alida signed up during a special month and received a discount of $500 already! They need to raise only $1695 to offset the total remaining cost, but any amount they raise will help ease the financial burden.
If you are at all inclined, please read this message from Alida below (in RED) & feel free to donate ANY amount, even small donations will help immensely when added up! There is a link to make a minimum donation of $25 directly with Viacord Gift Registry on line with a credit card, however if you prefer to mail cash/check/money order or give an anonymous donation of any smaller incriments, make checks payable to Alida Rodriguez with "cord blood donation" in the memo section and mail to me:
Erin Hagemeister
caneywaney@yahoo.com

I will collect all the donations & present them to her on Monday June 8, 2009...Thats only 5 days away!
Thank you & God Bless!
~Erin

Cord Blood for Josiah!

We are thrilled about the upcoming birth of our baby.

As you know, we had quite a health scare with Josiah recently. After much prayer and deliberation, though we pray it isn't ever needed, we thought it wise to do cord blood preservation with Viacord. We believe this potentially life saving option is the right thing to do for our family.

Many of you have asked if you could bring us a meal or groceries, or help out in some way to support our family, and what our new baby needs. We already have everything needed for this new precious little one. We ask instead of a meal or baby items that if you feel led, (please do not feel obligated in any way)
we invite you to contribute to our Viacord account as a truly unique baby gift – one that could last a lifetime.

To view our announcement online or to make a contribution, click here.

Going back to the Hospital

We took Josiah to CHOC this morning for a blood test and were hopeful for the results from last weeks tests, but no results were given. I was relieved to have them draw more blood for Josiah as he has a couple of new tiny bruises. Not at all as big as the others, much more faint... We also got to drop off food for my old "roommate." Since starting treatment little Jasmine looks MUCH better, please continue to pray for her.

Well shortly after we left we were called and told that Josiah needs to come back ASAP to the hospital as he is once again low on platelets. I ASKED HOW MANY AND SHE MENTIONED 15, (I'm assuming she meant 15,000) I asked what is considered normal. She mentioned 150,000-200,000, but in his case, 50,000 is good.
We are going back at 1pm. So, once again we ask for prayer. We are standing in faith that he is going to be healed. He tested too low this morning, so something is going on, they just don't know exactly what. I am just thankful that it is outpatient. I am due tomorrow so I PRAY we don't have to be admitted. Thanks for reading this and praying.

Jun 1, 2009

We are HOME! Josiah's been released!





Praise God from whom all blessings flow! We are so blessed! They FINALLY let us leave!!! We are HOME SWEET HOME!!!!!! They said they won't know for SURE until Thursday specifically what was or is wrong with him, but since he seems very energetic and healthy, that we might as well wait at home, especially with me being pregnant and due any day. They did confirm that it is not leukemia! PTL! Most of the kids we saw on oncology were very tired, seemed to be in pain, but Josiah has been very energetic from the get go. They gave us back all of the paperwork regarding leukemia that we signed. My son won't lose his beautiful curls!

Now here is the peculiar part... they think he may have the Epstein-Barr Virus ! One of the doctors seems certain, one of the doctors said maybe. I have no idea how EBV could make Josiah as ill as he was. My only concern is that it could be undiagnosed Aplastic anemia. Huatzin was a bit discouraged that we didn't get a clean bill of health for our son or know the cause. I am standing in faith that our boy is healed! We are still praying guidance regarding the cord blood. Apparently viacord will bank blood for free if a disease of some sort is diagnosed, but we don't yet have a diagnoses and Huatzin has been out of work for some time now. Please pray for work for IMMEDIATE work for him and all his co workers with families to support. I saw a prayer list and laughed. It had 3 different requests for our family. 1) for Huatzin’s job, one for our baby, and one for Josiah. I chuckled. When it rains it pours doesn't it! ;-)

Thank you so much for all the prayer and support. We hope to give more details Thursday. We are home so meals are no longer needed. THANK you to all who signed up and brought us meals or were going to! May the Lord himself repay for your kindness. I got to pray for our roommate and her daughter before we left. I left her Above Rubies Magazines, a book that had all three Stormie Omartian books, "Power of a praying parent, Power of a praying wife, and Power of a praying woman. I also gave her the "Prison to praise" which is about thanking God is every circumstance. I gave her a Message bible (I don't know if she's a believer or not) I also gave her “the Father's Love letter” to encourage her. I pray she reads them. I left my contact info and hope to be able to deliver occasional meals to her as I’m only 10 minutes from the hospital. Maybe watch her daughter while she showers. She lives over an hour away and family hasn't really come by often. We prayed for her and she seemed encouraged. I pray she and her family comes to Christ. I wish I would have done more the last couple days. Another mama was blessed by the Above Rubies magazines. The other mother I befriended had already left before I could pass out any books or pray with her. Please pray for Zoe, Jordan and Jasmine and their families. We pray healing, salvation through Christ, and God's peace, direction, provision, and wisdom. Thanks again for all that you've done. In Christ, our GLORIOUS REDEEMING Savior!

'Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km63bQinoJk’Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus,
Just to take Him at His Word;
Just to rest upon His promise,
And to know, “Thus says the Lord!”

Refrain
Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him!
How I’ve proved Him o’er and o’er
Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus!
O for grace to trust Him more!

O how sweet to trust in Jesus,
Just to trust His cleansing blood
And in simple faith to plunge me
’Neath the healing, cleansing flood!

Refrain

Yes, ’tis sweet to trust in Jesus,
Just from sin and self to cease;
Just from Jesus simply taking
Life and rest, and joy and peace.
Refrain
I’m so glad I learned to trust Thee,
Precious Jesus, Savior, Friend;
And I know that Thou art with me,
Wilt be with me to the end.

WATER -

I could get lost in all of Your love for me
Your love and mercy is all that I need
Great is Your kindness, great are Your deeds
And when the world surrounds me, You’re all I see
Hold me in Your arms
Catch me when I fall
Hear me in my darkest hour
Your love flows like Water washing over me
Your love flows like Water washing over me
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=267399

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey goodbye! Our farewell photo at CHOC!


May 31, 2009

Josiah/Rodriguez Family update

Hi Precious Brethren in Christ,

I am finally visiting home for the first time in what seems like an eternity. I burst into tears walking into the familiar sights and smells of my home, taking a shower in my own bathroom! I've had friends that have had children hospitalized and my heart hurt for them and I prayed but really you have NO IDEA how it is until you are really there how hard it is! It is truly like another WORLD. There are many sick children (bald wearing masks, hooked up to machines), nurses coming in and out every hour to monitor, you wait for delayed tests, doctors, nurses, and results. It's dark as not much light comes through the windows, hours and days sort of blend into one another, you hear children crying when they get blood drawn, are getting treatment, at all hours of day and night. There is no routine. And not much to do, getting food, showering, and even going to the bathroom can be such a hassle. I can't describe it all, but it is so different. As bad as this is, I think of Haiti, Liberia India, Vietnam, and many other poor countries and how much WORSE it would be having a sick child there. I count my blessings and thank God that as awful as this is, he has us here in such a great hospital. How many mothers don’t have access to this type of care and watch their children perish.

When they first mentioned cancer I immediately recalled a friend Trish from Above Rubies (her son Josiah drowned and was revived, and perfectly restored to health) telling me when we named Josiah a comment about, well, just so you know one of the meanings of Josiah is "God has healed" and how MANY people named Josiah that have had trials, illness or accidents . Just don't be surprised....she said. My mind flashed back to that and I started thinking of the many people I've prayed for with cancer this year that were healed to glory and not here on earth. I cried and the Spirit reminded me to take every thought captive. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 Also felt God was telling me not to “worry about tomorrow” (the what if’s), Matthew 6:27 take it moment by moment, and Matt 6:34. And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? I had to remember that as much as I adore and love my son, God loves my son more than I do and that he isn't really MINE in the first place, that there is a plan and purpose for all of this. I was reminded that those that Whoever tries to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it. I remembered that I had dedicated each of my children to the Lord to use for His purposes and that He knew the full scope of my son’s life and how each detail or situation is woven together for His glory. I had to lay my sweet little son on the alter and trust in God’s mercy and goodness. And His word, no matter the outcome.

God has been so good. The love and support that many have shown just astounds me. I wept tears of joy at all that has happened. We feel so taken care of by our Lord and by all of you! He is such a faithful father. He has provided in ways we didn't even think of. From the Meals have been coming for Huatzin and the kids. (Thanks so much) (I know this is so stressful for Huatzin trying to balance visits to the hospital, taking care of the kiddos, running the household, to still trying to find a job, the kids have gone with him to the hall to look for work) This has really been helpful. ALHomeschoolers brought over a huge basket of snacks for the kids and I, as food isn't always readily available at the hospital. Friends have provided childcare for my kiddos when we needed it, visits at the hospital, toys for Josiah to keep him busy, a fan as the AC doesn't work well in our room, prayers and verses both mailed and texted. Offers for doula help if I need to give birth to baby while Huatzin stays with Josiah. It is incredible! Truth be told, I have always felt a bit cheated by not having family but all of you have been brothers and sisters in Christ to us. I couldn't thank all of you if I tried! Praise report- apparently many of you are praying and have passed our situation on to many other prayer boards. People all over the country and the world are interceding for our little family! A nurse came up to me and asked if we attended CCEA church. I said no, why? She said “oh, we've been praying for your son!” She works on the same floor that we are on! You have no idea how encouraging that is. Several of you mentioned the Lord waking you up at 3am to pray for my boy, all at the same time! Other times in the middle of the night I feel overwhelmed with all that is going on and right then I’ll get a text from someone praying for us in the wee hours! My contractions have stopped for now, a real blessing.

I wanted to let everyone know. Your prayers are working. When we went in they seemed pretty certain that Josiah had Leukemia. They had us fill out paperwork about treatment for it and everything. Now, from what they can tell, it doesn't appear to be cancer. Though they want to make perfectly sure that is isn't Leukemia caught in its very early stages (which is still a possibility). We’ll know more tomorrow. They have mentioned various viruses that it could be... they also mentioned Aplastic anemia which the doctor mentioned is actually WORSE then Leukemia. Leukemia has a 90% recovery rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aplastic_anemia so we are praying it isn’t that either although the symptoms are exactly what Josiah has. We may be able to leave as soon as tomorrow if all the lab work comes back clear and Josiah might just need occasional monitoring which is what we are praying for. A nurse told me that when we went in JoJo had 8000 ( I THINK it was platelets? ) I asked how many he had after the transfusion, they mentioned 80,000Yikes! So we are so glad we brought him in when we did.

Josiah has done wonderfully. He has charmed every nurse and doctor there. He lets them check him and loves talking to everyone and meeting all the new people. He is so special and sweet. I am amazed at what a great job he is doing! They say he makes their job so easy.

Yesterday they let me unhook Josiah and I took him outside on a small fenced off patch of grass in front of CHOC to get fresh air and sun. He hasn't been out in 4 days. He kicked around his beach ball and laughed and played. I read through the Psalms and felt God’s peace and presence. He stopped playing, got sad and cried. He sometimes doesn't know why or how to express himself and I guess all of the scariness caught up with him. We prayed to Jesus. He told me “mama I scared” and “mama please hold me.” I nursed him, held him and he fell asleep in my arms. I carried him back upstairs. Later on we stayed up really late reading bible stories, listening to worship music with my headphones, him on one ear, I on another and raising our hands and praising Jesus while eating ice chips ( a perk, hospitals have the BEST ice chips) It was a sweet time of fellowship.

Please pray that I can step out of all that is going on and encourage the mothers that I have met and spoken to here. Only God knows how long we'll be here so I pray we are light while here. One mother here has 3 children; TWO of those children are being treated for cancer at the same time! This morning our roommate was informed that her little girl Jasmine has cancer. I heard her crying. It is heartbreaking. A single mother has been here 9 months in the last year! Another mother with a 6 year old was admitted last week diagnosed with cancer. I am going to bring Above Rubies Magazines, Power of a praying parent and from Prison to praise to give to some. Please pray for boldness in sharing the gospel and the love of Christ. If anyone has extra copies of either book or something encouraging, please let me know. We are on a serious budget with Huatzin out of work, and I can’t afford to buy more copies to give out. But I feel there must be a purpose for us being here. Please also pray for wisdom in whether we should pursue banking the cord blood. It is VERY expensive, the doctor doesn't think it's necessary, but the timing seems perfect. Huatzin is hesitant. I'll go with what he decides, so I pray the Lord leads him. We ask for wisdom if it's needed, and time to order the kit for my midwife if we should. The Lord knows our needs and whether it'll be necessary or not. Thanks again, Alida, In Christ, our GLORIOUS REDEEMING SAVIOR!

May 28, 2009

My Josiah has been hospitalized ;-( Please pray

Our precious 2 year old Josiah has been hospitalized. I've been there since yesterday. We ask for prayer. He hurt himself on a trampoline but seemed fine. We started noticing bruises from where he must have gotten pinned in between the springs. Over the next few days he started getting more and more unexplained bruises
all over his body despite being carefully monitored. He then started getting nose bleeds vomiting and a fever.

I started checking online and asking around online thinking he must be anemic or something and took him in. We thought it would be a quick check up, maybe that they'd give us some iron pills or something for him and be sent home. They did blood tests and are convinced he has either a blood disorder or cancer, ( leukemia)
This has nothing to do with the trampoline incident and we are grateful to God that it happened or we wouldn't have taken him in. Only the Lord knows how long this would have gone undiagnosed.

They have done so many tests and it is so awful to see my poor little baby get poked, prodded, and not allowed to nurse or eat. It is so heartbreaking and torturous to hear him screaming as they can't find his veins. I consider
myself a very strong person but this has had me breaking down in tears. I'd give anything for it to be me instead.

I have been crying out that the Lord would have mercy on this precious child. He is low on platelets, hemoglobin, and blood. They have given him platelets and blood. He had a bone marrow biopsy scheduled today but his blood doesn't look well enough to proceed and they don't want to risk him bleeding alot when he already has low blood. So it will hopefully be done tomorrow. I pray it's early as he doesn't understand why he cant eat, drink or nurse. I won't dare eat or drink in front of him so I haven't been eating either..

This has been so hard to leave the other kids to take care of him . I didn't understand God's decision to not allow us to buy the house we wanted in Riverside or Huatzin losing his job, but now I see his perfect timing. 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but
then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. I don't know what I'd do if Huatzin had to work right now during this whole ordeal.

I am home only for a quick time to ask for prayer, shower, and get back to my baby. PLEASE lift Josiah and our family in prayer. I was overwhelmed last night when I started having heavy contractions before they even began the transfusions. I am praying God will be merciful and not let the baby come just yet. I
CANNOT leave my two year old. I am all that he wants. I am ok with the thought of having a baby alone while Huatzin stays with him, though that isn't at all ideal, but would prefer this whole thing be taken care of before baby arrives. I am
praying it's ITP (Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura) which he has the symptoms of, but isn't as bad as leukemia. I don't want to face having to decide to go the natural route for cancer treatment vs.. chemo. I forgot my bible at a friends house so I so appreciate all of you that texted over bible verses. It was so encouraging and helpful. Thanks for all the love and support. We share a room with another family ( with a daughter with Leukemia ;-( I try to sleep as they wake him up every hour or so... It is hard as he is hooked up and wants to get down. I also have to wait to find a nurse to watch him while I go to the bathroom which is awful. It is uncomfortable, but I know there is a purpose for it all.
One good thing about it, if it is leukemia, I am due any day and would be able to use the cord blood. Great timing but I'd REALLY prefer not to travel down that road! Alida & Rodriguez Family.

Apr 6, 2009

Sad week for us ;-(




This has been a sad week for us. This week we had a sister in the Lord, Julie Quintanapass away shortly after giving birth leaving her husband and 4 children.
Days later we learned that our friend, Pastor Charlie Wilkins
went home to be with the Lord. He was just recently diagnosed
with lung cancer then on April 2ND went to the hospital with
difficulty breathing and died. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/wilkins-miller-westminster-2354069-community-years

I just wanted to share that pastor Charlie Wilkins was an incredible
man. He will be sorely missed. I met him in High School. He was a
basketball coach. For a year or two he'd pester me and say "come
on out and join the basketball team, you'll love it! come on girl!" Finally
my senior year I took him up on the offer. He taught me how to shoot
3 pointers. :-) Before that I'd make a spectacle of myself shooting
air ball after air ball. He used that same encouragement later on to get
my friend Virgie to join the choir and a few others. He had a way of making you feel
important and needed, that there was SOMETHING you should be doing:-)

He became a pastor and led my husband to CHRIST! He counseled us, married us
and dedicated two oldest children. He was a Westminster police Chaplain,
Became founder and pastor of church Greater Grace Church of deliverance
in Westminster and volunteered in many ways in the community, often speaking and singing with that great voice of his. I believe
he worked at other schools. Fryburger Elementary put out a FAREWELL sign.
Charlie was one of those people that always drew a crowd. My mom and I
used to joke that he should go into politics. Wherever we'd see him,
at the store or out and about, he was crowded with people. He'd always stop
and talk with you. He was a dear sweet man. Especially at a time when
Titus 2 men/godly father figures are in short supply.
Pastor Charlie is in the presence of Jesus now. Goodbye, we'll miss you.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/wilkins-miller-westminster-2354069-community-years Alida w4

Mar 13, 2009

Response to John Piper’s argument for birth control

A sweet brother in the Lord responds to John Piper's argument for Birth Control.
Bill and Kim Kinderman are a precious family with 9 children. I got to meet them last year at the Above Rubies family camp. She writes " My husband was reading your post about the Pearl’s conference:
My problem with that is many folks will rather ask a Christian guru about what to do with huge life changing decisions and not seek the Lord once they get an answer they were hoping to hear.

"He asked me to send the attachment where he responds to John Piper’s argument for birth control. Hope you enjoy it."

I wanted to THANK Bill and Kim. I certainly did enjoy this article. I have read it once before in Bonded Together and was very pleased to read it again. I have included this article below. Be BLESSED as you surrender to The One Who Sees the whole scope from beginning to end and Has the best plan for your life and the life of your children. May those that profess Christ allow Him reign in EVERY area of your life, not just the easy parts. I believe every believing family would be blessed to read this at least once. It's a bit long, but worth it. Print it out and read it later. Feel free to comment. Alida w4
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It is no secret: most of the evangelical world does not share our Quiverfull convictions. A Quiverfull digest reader came across the John Piper/Desiring God website, browsed through it, and asked me to weigh in on some of the material they had posted there. Specifically, she asked me to respond to the arguments they make regarding the appropriateness and permissibility of using birth control for Christians.

John Piper is pastor of Bethlehem Baptist church in the Minneapolis MN area. He is a leading evangelical bible teacher with an earned doctorate. I have the utmost respect for him and his ministry, and nothing I say here should be construed as anything more than a sincere biblical/theological disagreement between brothers in Christ. Dr. Piper has stood publicly for controversial biblical doctrines that are unpopular today, including the male headship principle. I appreciate his ministry, but in this particular area I will offer a strong dissent from the position he/they have taken on birth control as posted on the Desiring God website.

"DG and Bethlehem Baptist have no formal position on birth control, but John Piper and most of the pastors on staff believe that non-abortive forms of birth control are permissible. The Bible nowhere forbids birth control, either explicitly or implicitly, and we should not add universal rules that are not in Scripture (cf. Psalm 119:1, 9 on the sufficiency of Scripture)."

What I think they mean by "no formal position" is that they hold the opinion that non-abortive bc is ok, but do not take a stand on it in the sense that they ask everyone in their ministry to adhere to that view. I suspect this means they would tolerate someone with quiverfull views on their staff. Fine. Then it states in effect that since the Bible does not explicitly forbid bc then we should not add rules to the Scriptures (i.e. – don’t use bc). Therefore bc for them falls into a gray area – use it or don’t use it as you see fit. This is a pretty standard view of the matter that is prevalent in evangelical circles today.

At the outset, I will observe that appealing to biblical silence is not a strong argument in FAVOR of anything. There are many things that are not mentioned explicitly in the Bible that we nevertheless do make a strong implicit biblical case for. Someone could say with just as much validity – as far as it goes, which is not far at all – that the Bible nowhere mentions biblical inerrancy, the Trinity, etc. The fact that the Bible does not mention the Trinity explicitly does not at all mean that the Trinity is not implicitly a biblical teaching. The same thing goes for inerrancy. And, I will argue, the same thing can be said for birth control usage, at least most of the time.

"What is important is our attitude in using it. Any attitude which fails to see that children are a good gift from the Lord is wrong: "Behold, children are a gift of the Lord; the fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them" (Psalm 127:3-4)."

I agree with the "what is important is our attitude in using it" statement. In context it refers to nonabortive birth control. Where I differ, however, is with the idea that using bc is ok as long as while using it you can somehow maintain that "children are a gift of the Lord." Boulderdash. Bc usage in my view usually will directly contradict the idea that children are a gift from God. Your attitude in using it, in other words, will often not honor Christ.

Think about this for a moment. Think of something else that we see as a temporal gift from God: say, money. I have never known folks to ask God that their business not do as well, or that they not get a raise from their boss, due to concerns about their ability to manage or handle the extra funds. It just does not happen. Why? Because as long as we are honest about getting our money and we use it in accord with biblical priorities, it is a gift from God that allows us to do things that we see as His will for us: pay for our house, our food, clothes, cars, fund churches and missionaries, minister to the needy, etc. Now, certainly it is wrong to love money, and it helps us not to do so when we give it away biblically. But we generally all see honest money as a blessing. Almost no one ever asks God for less of it, or worse yet deliberately makes business decisions designed to reduce an otherwise Christ-honoring honest profit. So we say money is a blessing, and welcome it without reservation when God blesses us with more. We say money is a blessing and we usually mean it, no doubt.

Yet children are a blessing also - we can all agree that the Bible teaches this. But then we turn right around and, while saying we believe they are blessings, we say it is ok to nevertheless intervene surgically, chemically, or otherwise so as to STOP the arrival of these "blessings." This is a direct contradiction.

Let me illustrate the issue another way: fellowship. Lets say there is a family in your church that you meet and invite over. They come, you all have a good time as far as you can tell, and they leave. Then you ask them about getting together again, and they say "Yeah, we had a great time at your house, so let’s get together." They sound sincere, so you say: "How about Saturday at 8?" They respond: "Oh sorry, I need to do the dishes and laundry, so Saturday isn’t a good day." "Ok, no sweat," you say. "We’ll try another day in a few weeks." Then in a few weeks you approach them about it and they still have lots of laundry. Then this happens, say, 20 times. 30 times. At some point a reasonable person will get the idea that maybe that family didn’t have such a blessed time at your house after all. That is what using bc is like in most circumstances: "Yes God, children are a blessing from you. But please, don’t send any more right now. And, just to make sure you don’t, I am going to ‘help’ you by doing my best to make sure you can’t ‘bless’ us by using bc." You are saying children are a blessing with your lips but in your attitude and actions you contradict what you say. You live as if they are not, in other words.

God has designed our bodies, appropriate only in marriage, to procreate. This is generally so. True, there are some who have health issues and things do not work as they should and they cannot have children, or only a few, or even one. My heart goes out to them. But this is the exception. Usually, if we do not fill our bodies with chemicals for years (i.e. the pill), have surgery, abortions, etc – our bodies will produce children in marriage. God made it this way. Had He not wanted it this way He would not have made it so. The Bible makes it clear that children are a blessing and that "blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them." But modern Christians often kind of reword the verse by their bad attitudes: they say "blessed is the man whose quiver has two of them." Wrong.

No, if we believe children are a blessing from God we will accept the ones that He sends in His timing, and avoid the modern tendency to believe that He has given us the authority to say NO to the arrival of what we call blessings from Him. That is kind of like saying "No, Lord" When He tells you to do something. A direct, obvious, blatant contradiction.

Before moving on I need to say: I am not one who says birth control is NEVER ever acceptable no matter what. I realize some out there take that view, and I respect it. But I do personally allow for non abortive bc in situations where there is a genuine health condition that will threaten the woman’s life if she conceives. I know of such a woman: she is quiverfull from the heart. But after having several children she developed a severe heart condition that could easily result in immediate death. No exaggeration, no speculation. Her weak heart was truly a threat to her life, and the stress of pregnancy was a threat to her weak heart. I would never tell her she is out of God’s will for using nonabortive bc. Situations like this do happen, but they are the exception. That is where the motive comes in: a person who really believes children are a blessing but does not want to die and therefore uses nonabortive bc is not in my view sinning.

On the other hand, most of the time most who use bc and say children are a blessing are probably doing it for motives like:
Having things go easier at home; wanting to have more money; more ability to indulge personal desires for comfort and convenience etc. I see these all as being basically selfish, and not valid motives for using bc. I think that someone with selfish motives who uses bc is in sin. It is not a "gray" area, with such a motive.

"There are, of course, some Christians who would disagree with this position on birth control."
Yes. I am one. Blessings are not things we seek to avoid, generally. Yet that is exactly what folks using bc selfishly are usually doing – they are saying yes and living no.

"Is birth control consistent with the truth that children are a gift from the Lord?
It is very important to delight in the reality that "children are a gift of the Lord." But some people go further and argue from this that since children are gifts from God, it is wrong to take steps to regulate the timing and number of children one has."

Yes, it is wrong to say you believe that children are blessings and then spend your fertile years as a couple doing your level best to have just a few of these "blessings" out of selfish motives. Where in the Bible does God tell us to avoid these blessings? Where in the Bible are fallen men given the authority from God to decide such things? An argument from silence, true. But the silence, in this case, is deafening. Especially since the command to procreate has already been given.

If God wanted us to act this way He would have: A. told us it is OK to use bc in His Word, or B. He would NOT have designed our bodies to function in a way that usually if left alone will lead to large families. Had God wanted us to normally use bc He would NOT have told the very first couple ever, at the very beginning of their existence the following: "And God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." (Gen. 1:28, NASB, emphasis mine). This verse is God’s dominion mandate to mankind. That is to say, this passage is a blessing that includes God’s marching orders for humanity. So we observe that the first blessing given to the first human couple in the first chapter of the Bible at the beginning of their life together included a command that they were to procreate for Him. That is not all that is here, but it is part of what is here – a key part of human existence.

I should point out that in the entire rest of the Bible nothing is ever said anywhere that modifies or in any way abrogates this command to married couples to multiply (the Hebrew word, rabah, used in Gen 1:28, signifies to "multiply, become numerous, become great." (Vine OT/NT words, p. 156). And, we notice that God’s design for our bodies ably supports this command. He told us to do it, and made us to be able to do it. Why would He tell us to multiply, and then enable us to multiply, if He did not want us to multiply? Answer: He wouldn’t. Why would He make us like this and then consider it a matter of no great import that we surgically or chemically intervene to prevent ourselves from doing the very thing He told us to do?!!! Answer: He wouldn’t. What we do with this is important to God – He wants us to be fruitful and multiply, and anything that man contrives to stop this is usually not going to be His will for man.

"In response, it can be pointed out that the Scriptures also say that a wife is a gift from the Lord (Proverbs 18:22), but that doesn't mean that it is wrong to stay single (1 Corinthians 7:8). Just because something is a gift from the Lord does not mean that it is wrong to be a steward of when or whether you will come into possession of it."

Taking the proverb about a wife being a gift and using that as a basis to draw conclusions about not being quiverfull is unrelated and just bogus. Apples and oranges. Children are not just a gift and a blessing from the Lord, though they are both. They result when we are doing what He wants us to. They happen because we are being obedient to God’s command to be fruitful and multiply. In fact, He sends each and every one. We are not commanded to marry, though most of us do. I would say yes, the single person is not to be fruitful and multiply. So what? The vast majority of us are NOT single. Adam and Eve were NOT single, so again – apples and oranges.
This is just another version of the old "stewardship" argument. One problem with the argument is the alleged authority of the steward. The steward works for someone else who has established the parameters of his stewardship. The steward does not make their own rules – they do what the boss says. So, with this in mind, remember – God is boss and has told human stewards of His world to be fruitful and multiply. So how is it legitimate without some further word from God on the subject for the steward to just up and decide one day "He does not really want me to do this – He left it up to me to decide." The Bible, in other words, nowhere tells man He has the authority to decide that God’s command to be fruitful and multiply no longer applies. Man may claim authority to decide this, but the Bible does not indicate God intends for man to assume such authority. Who do we think we are, to tell Him what blessings we will and will not accept, guided by our selfish desires for comfort, prestige, the praise of men, or other carnal motives?!! No thanks. I want no part of such thinking.

But what about using bc with unselfish motives? For “ministry”? Well, you have to wonder about whether or not it is God’s will for you to be involved in any ministry that requires you to disobey His command to be fruitful and multiply in order to minister. Why would He want you to disobey His word in order to more effectively minister for Him?!! No, ministry is no good reason to use bc.

"It is wrong to reason that since A is good and a gift from the Lord, then we must pursue as much of A as possible. God has made this a world in which tradeoffs have to be made and we cannot do everything to the fullest extent."

I am not building my biblical case for quiverfull living on the fact that kids are blessings, though they are blessings (and if we really believed that we would struggle much less with all this!). I am building my fundamental case on obedience to the divine command given by God to humanity in Genesis 1:28. God always expects us to obey His commands to the best of our ability.

"For kingdom purposes, it might be wise not to get married."

Yes. Undeniably, Paul was such a man (1 Cor. 7:1-7). The command to multiply is NOT for the single – Adam and Eve were NOT single when God told them what He wanted them to do. God does intend some to be single (see Matt 19:11-12). But if you are single and living in obedience to God you do not have to worry about bc preventing conception because you are not fornicating.

"And for kingdom purposes, it might be wise to regulate the size of one's family and to regulate when the new additions to the family will likely arrive."

This one bothers me. Let us use bc for God. God does not desire us to disobey Him for the sake of advancing His kingdom. It is not at all wise to regulate the size of one’s family since that is God’s job as the giver of life, not ours.

"When I was teaching a summer course at a seminary in Africa, a student of mine made a perceptive observation along these same lines. He noted first of all that in the creation account the command to multiply is given together with the command to subdue the earth: "And God blessed them; and God said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth (Genesis 1:28).'" He then asked how a farmer (he lived in a largely agrarian society) knows how much land he should cultivate. The answer, of course, is that a farmer seeks to cultivate what he believes he can reasonably handle. He doesn't take this command to mean that he needs to make his farm be as large as is naturally possible. Likewise, then, it is right for a couple to seek to have the number of children that they believe they can reasonably nurture in light of the other callings they may also have on their lives. In the same vein, Wayne Grudem points out: "We aren't required to maximize the amount of children we have any more than we are required to subdue the earth all the time—plant, grow, harvest, etc."

Well, at least Piper admits here that multiplying is a direct command from God to us. Then he takes one facet of subduing the earth – farming it – and draws an analogy with procreation. This is actually a very clever argument. The problem is, there is nothing in the verse itself – or anywhere else in the whole Bible – that indicates anything about the precise size a person’s farm or family, should be. In the student’s experience, he could only farm so much. Understandable. So – fine. Only have as many kids as God allows your body to make. The analogy to farming is clever, but in fact we are once again comparing apples and oranges. A farmer might indeed know how many acres he can cultivate. However, how could we objectively decide how many kids we can "reasonably nurture"?
Trying to say, however, that because a man can only handle a farm of XX number of acres then that means that in like manner he is to make similar decisions as to the number of kids he can handle raises some questions: 1. What criteria will he use to decide how many kids he can handle? Does he stop when it gets hard? I have met moms of one who are at the end of their rope (or at least they think they are!). They say it is hard. Then, I have met moms of many more who feel just as overwhelmed with 7 as they did when they had one. At the time they had one, they felt swamped, stressed, discouraged, etc. But God gave them amazing grace to handle their 7 that they never thought they would have or could have had back when they had only one. But if they had acted on their feelings back with one or two or three and had their tubes tied, well, then number two or three or four wouldn’t have come. And so it goes. Remember, we were – and are – depraved sinners, and I know how easy it is for my own carnal selfishness to pretend it wants to do something for God when it is really my own selfishness that is being served. I am “guessing” others are like me (see Jeremiah 17:9, Romans 3: 10-12; 3:23, etc). 2. Will money enter into it? Will we need to make 150,000 per year before we allow ourselves to trust God with sending us more kids? Anybody see any potential problems here?!! 3. Exactly what does one define as "reasonable" nurture? My sin nature would probably define it - coincidentally - as exactly the number of kids we had right then when things were hard. Surprise. I just do not trust sinful man with the authority to make this kind of decision in a way that glorifies God. And I just do not think God has given us the right to make such decisions. Certainly the Bible does not teach us to do this.

And, far more importantly, nowhere does God say it is ok for man to decide what reasonable nurture is and just stop multiplying the kids then and there. The farmer may indeed farm less if he wants, but the Christian father and mother are procreating, not farming. God knows far better than any human parents how many kids any couple can handle. Let’s leave the authority for making this momentous kind of decision where it belongs, where the Bible leaves it – with Him, as the Author and Giver of life. He provides grace, money, etc. for us to handle all the kids He sends. That does not mean it does not get hard. It does. And when it does, turn to Him for strength to continue, cling to Him. Grow in your faith, in His strength. Do not turn to human wisdom which operates directly against His purposes for your life.

"In reality, then, although it is true that "blessed is the man whose quiver is full of [children]," we need to realize that God has not given everyone the same size quiver. And so birth control is a gift from God that may be used for the wise regulation of the size of one's family, as well as a means of seeking to have children at the time which seems to be wisest."

Yes, our quivers differ in size. That is not the issue. The issue is, who decides what size they should be? I say God, Piper says man. I must biblically disagree with this usurpation of divine prerogative for all of the reasons mentioned earlier.

Birth control is NOT a gift from God "that may be used for the wise regulation of the size of one's family, as well as a means of seeking to have children at the time which seems to be wisest." This is just not so. Where does the Bible say this? Answer: nowhere. The pill is at least some times an abortifacient. They have tried to hide this for years but now we KNOW it. They lied to us. Surprise. But, to be fair, Piper only will allow for nonaborting bc. However, if this nonaborting bc is a gift from God then He chose strange messengers to deliver it and spread this gift around. People like Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood. I mean – c’mon. Birth control is simply a modern way of allowing modern man with Satan’s help to tamper with and thwart the procreative aspect of God’s dominion purposes for humanity.

It is noteworthy to mention that prior to the 1930s NOT A SINGLE ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN CHURCH accepted birth control as being in God’s will for a Christian couple. Anything seem strange about this? I realize this is a historical argument and that this type of argument has way less authority than a biblical argument. But at least think about it for a moment: God’s Spirit left ALL of us in the dark on this for over nineteen centuries, and then 70-80 years ago we suddenly get new light into the Scriptures and what was unacceptable before (and embraced by people like Margaret Sanger) is now a “gift” from God? And, millions now selfishly use this “gift” to thwart God’s procreative purposes in marriage?!!! Something about this just stinks. I do not buy it. And Scripture does not teach it, by the way.

“Shouldn't we let God determine the size of our family?
Sometimes people also reason that if you really want to "trust God" to determine the size of your family, then you should not use birth control. The assumption seems to be that if you "just let things happen naturally," then God is more at work than if you seek to regulate things and be a steward of when they happen. But surely this is wrong! God is just as much in control of whether you have children when you use birth control as when you don't. The hands of the almighty are not tied by birth control! A couple will have children precisely at the time God wants, whether they use birth control or not. Either way, then, God is ultimately in control of the size of one's family.”


Using the sovereignty of God argument in order to justify birth control misunderstands the role of human obedience in the outworking of God’s will in our lives. Yes, God is absolutely sovereign. But that never means that because He is sovereign it is ok to walk in disobedience to a divine command. Yes He is sovereign, but we are still responsible to obey Him.

There is a bigger issue here, which is the mystery that is involved whenever you mix the divine and the human in anything. For example, take biblical inspiration. It is clear from the Scriptures that the Bible is a divinely inspired and yet also fully human book (2 Peter 1: 20: “men spoke from God”). Now, this teaching strikes some as problematic. Some Christians react negatively to the human part, and want to ignore the human and emphasize the divine. With me this lasts about two seconds. Can anyone doubt that it was David the divinely inspired man who said “Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy holy spirit from me.” (Psalm 51:11 KJV) Why would God request that He not take His own Holy Spirit from Himself?!! Answer: He wouldn’t, but David the sinful man who had murdered the husband of the woman he had committed adultery with WOULD ask just such a thing. That is the context of Psalm 51. See also 2 Samuel 11: 1 – 12:23.

Or who could doubt that it was the human side of the God-man, Jesus who said on the Cross: “I am thirsty” (John 19:28). Or the human side of the Apostle Paul who said to Timothy from prison “When you come bring the cloak which I left at Troas with Carpus…” God does NOT get thirsty or cold, but men do, and in God’s word men spoke such things and yet mysteriously were divinely inspired when they spoke these words. In fact, as a man, Jesus got thirsty, yet He was also fully God. And so it goes. Exactly where the divine involvement stops and the human takes over, or the extent to which the divine overshadows and even works through the human is just not clear. It is a mystery, in other words.

Well, Dr. Piper or whoever at Desiring God wrote what I just quoted above seems to think that God’s purposes for our lives (in this case procreating) will not be thwarted by human disobedience (using bc “wisely”). If this is so, then why should any of us bother obeying God at all in anything? It will all work out anyway since God is sovereign, so don’t bother obeying God by: giving money to missionaries, sending or even being a missionary, a pastor, sharing your faith with others, etc. Single Christians: don’t worry about marrying a Christian, don’t worry about unequal yoking. If God wants you to marry a Christian He will overrule your disobedience and just make His will happen anyway .Or, don’t worry about taking the Gospel overseas: God will find a way to save the lost even if the missionaries don’t get to them in time, not one person will miss being saved who God wants to be saved, etc. I mean, all this is ludicrous, obviously. Yes God is sovereign, but our obedience is part of how He works out His sovereign will in this fallen world. Mysterious, but undeniably true.

So, we see that the weakness of the God-will-overrule-bc argument is exposed when you apply the logic of it to other areas of Christian life and arrive at absurd and clearly unbiblical results. Yes, God is sovereign, but where He has given us instructions to follow we must do what He says. Rationalizing away our disobedience by arguing that God will sovereignly overrule us if He wants to ignores the fact that in the Bible God chooses usually NOT to work that way. His sovereignty, in other words, is never an excuse for us to disobey something He has told us He wants us to do. He works out His will through us, usually. Yes He can overrule – but that is the exception, not the rule. In Genesis 1: 28 God has already told all of us to be fruitful and greatly increase (multiply). That should pretty much settle it, in terms of knowing what His will for us is in that area of our lives.

The "trust God, therefore don't use birth control" thinking is based upon the incorrect assumption that what happens "naturally" reflects "God's best" for our lives, but that what happens through human means does not. Why should we conclude that the way to let God decide the size of our family is to get out of the way and just let nature take its course? We certainly don't think that way in other areas of life. We don't reason, for example, that we should never get haircuts so that "God can decide" the length of our hair. Farmers don't just let the wind plant their crops in the fear that actively regulating what is grown on their land somehow interferes with the provision God wants to give them. And a family doesn't just trust God to provide food for by waiting for it to drop from the sky, but instead goes to the store to buys it. God ultimately determines everything that will happen, both in nature and in human decisions, and He brings His will to pass through means. Human activity does not therefore interfere with his plans, but is instead itself governed by Him as the means to bring to pass His will. Hence, we should not conclude that what happens apart from our planning is "better" and more reflective of God's desires for us than what happens through our planning. God very often causes us to plan as the means towards improving our lives and advancing His kingdom purposes.

Well, much of what I have said earlier addresses the issues raised in the quote immediately above. I recognize that God is sovereign over the decisions humans make. I just cannot construe that doctrine to allow me to have a clear conscience while I am disobeying God’s command to procreate by simply appealing to His sovereignty over my error.

Yes, God works out His will through our actions, which is why it is important that we obey Him, in this case with respect to procreating. The specific issues of hair growth, farming, and buying food in the context of human decisions and planning were raised as analogies. In response, I say this: had God given us some clear instructions about how long or short our hair should be, or had He told us how to plant our crops, or where or how to purchase our food - and then in any of these areas we chose to go against what He told us to do - then we would be wrong. There is no freedom to choose or to plan against the revealed will of God as contained in the written Word of God. The writer of the above article is assuming that God has not told us to procreate, but in fact He has told us to. So, the analogies fail because they all pertain to “gray” areas where there is true legitimate human freedom to make differing choices. Because of Genesis 1:28, there is nothing “gray” about married Christians procreating. Therefore the analogies are false ones, wrongly illustrating a freedom to “plan” and use bc to decide how many kids we can have that biblically is just not there.

Further, God has revealed that it is His will for us to regulate and direct creation for His glory (Genesis 1:28). God has given us the privilege of being able to make significant life decisions because this exercises wisdom and thus shows the fruit that His word is bearing in our lives. When we rightly use the godly wisdom God has given us, God is glorified. He doesn't want us to simply think we have to take what comes naturally, apart from our efforts, because then our sanctified wisdom is not expressed. In fact, very often it is God's will that we not simply let things move along naturally. Going back to the analogy mentioned above, farmers don't simply collect whatever grain happens to grow in their fields, concluding "this is what God wants to provide." Rather, they go out and plant grain, realizing that God wants to provide not only through nature, but also through the means they employ to steward nature.

Well, need I say more about why the analogies are false ones? They do not apply because unlike farming, or harvesting, or getting haircuts – God HAS told us what He wants us to do in the specific area of procreation: Be fruitful and multiply. It is never wise to disobey God in anything, ever. We all do disobey, so I don’t mean to sound harsh or self-righteous. I fail. But still, I will not make an argument that says that a failure of mine is really no failure at all and that it is wise to follow what I say when I am arguing against God’s Word. Notice how the writer has no problem with seeing other commands in Gen 1:28. But why disregard the one to multiply? Where did any of us ever get the idea that the other commands in Gen 1:28 apply today, but the command to multiply does not?!! Such thinking does not come from God, I’ll tell you that.

“It does not work, therefore, to conclude that the use of birth control interferes with God's role in granting children. “

Yes it does.

Birth control can be a way of wisely stewarding the timing and size of one's family. [No!!!!!] One might be able to minister more effectively for the kingdom, for example, by waiting 3 years after marriage to have children in order to enable the husband to go to graduate school. And one might be able to minister more effectively for the kingdom by deciding to have 4 children instead of 15, so that more resources can be given to the cause of missions and more time can be devoted to other areas. If such planning is done for God's glory and in wisdom, and if such planning continues to acknowledge that our plans are not perfect and that birth control does not absolutely ensure anything, it is pleasing to God.”

Goodness. This is just wrong, terribly wrong. “Might” it not be better to let God have His way in this area and watch in joy as He works things out and provides for our needs, educational or otherwise, over and over again? Of course it is always better to do what God says. Disobeying Him for grad school, or some other lofty sounding ministry objective is still just plain old disobedience.

“Without regulating the size of their family, many couples would end up having more children than they can reasonably support financially. “

OK, so obeying God in this area will create such a strain on God’s ability to help you financially that it is unwise stewardship to just let the kids keep coming. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, but he needs your help in limiting the kids so that there will be enough funds left for Him to spread enough around so that each couple will be able to “reasonably support [them] financially”.

In response, some argue that we should simply have faith that God will provide the funds. However, we don't use the "God would provide" reasoning to justify going beyond our means in other areas of life. We wouldn't consider it wise, for example, to pledge twice our annual income to missions organizations in faith that God will supply the extra funds. God expects us to make wise decisions according to what he has given us, and not presume upon him providing from out of the blue. Reasonable financial considerations are a relevant factor: "If anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Timothy 5:8).”

Groan. I tire of this. So it is “wise”, it expresses “faith”, for us to disobey God’s command to procreate. God NEVER expects us to make “wise” decisions that go directly against His revealed will. Such decisions are foolish, not wise. Only in the world, which is against God, are such decisions (vasectomies, tubal litigations, the pill, condoms, etc) considered “wise.” May God deliver us from such worldly “wisdom.”

“Some conclude that "natural family planning" is acceptable but "artificial" means are not. But this seems to overlook something significant: in both cases, you are still seeking to regulate when you have children. And so if one concludes that it is wrong to seek to regulate the timing and size of a family, then it would have to be concluded that natural family planning is just as wrong as "artificial" means.”

Finally here is something I agree with: natural family planning is just as wrong as other types of bc if your motives are selfish and sinful in using it. Morally, in other words, nfp is no different than getting a vasectomy. Nfp is just another way to control and head off the blessing that God wants to give you, probably because deep in your heart you are not truly seeing that baby as a blessing.

“But if one concludes that it is appropriate to steward the timing and size of one's family, then what makes "artificial" means wrong but natural family planning right?”

Nothing. Both are usually wrong.

Surely it is not because God is "more free" to overrule our plans with natural family planning! Perhaps some have concluded that artificial forms are wrong because they allow one more fully to separate intercourse from the possibility of procreation. But if it is wrong to have intercourse without a significant possibility of procreation, then it would also be wrong to have intercourse during pregnancy or after a woman is past her childbearing years. There is no reason to conclude that natural family planning is appropriate but that "artificial" means are not.

Physical intimacy during pregnancy is not wrong. Pleasure and marital oneness are legitimate, God-given parts of marriage. I have never argued that procreation is the ONLY legitimate reason for physical intimacy. Perhaps some argue for this, but I do not, and I do not think such an idea is supported in Scripture, either. And finally, yes, I agree: “There is no [moral or biblical] reason to conclude that natural family planning is appropriate but that "artificial" means are not.” They are just different ways of doing (usually) the same wrong thing. Nfp is safer. But being safer while doing wrong does not change the fact that it is wrong.


Well, we have come a long way on this. Obviously much more could be said on both sides. I reiterate here what I said way back at the beginning: I do not consider John Piper or Desiring God to be heretical. But I do think they have imbibed worldly thinking in this particular area, with predictable results: a lessening of Christian obedience in the area of procreation. Brethren, please do not be deceived by those with advanced academic credentials who use clever analogies or alleged “wisdom” that if followed will result in you making choices that go directly against the explicit teaching of the Word of God.

Being Quiverfull is NOT an easy path to walk. Many of us who travel this road do indeed have hardships that those with fewer children do not face to the same degree, or sometimes even at all. There can be money problems, health problems, and even sin problems (i.e. yelling at the kids, tempers, selfishness, frustration with child training or lack thereof, etc). Not to mention problems with friends and relatives. Also, many of us homeschool too, which brings with it an array of extra challenges. In pointing out that God is faithful and is our provider, it is NOT my intent to act like none of us will ever suffer financial want, or will never have health problems, or will never become widows/widowers before our kids are grown, etc. This area of our lives, like every other area we seek to turn over to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, involves ongoing self-denial and sacrifice. We grow, we progress, but none of us ever fully arrives in this life. That is the way of things for Christians in this fallen world. We need to – by faith – put our wiggling selves back up on that sacrificial altar day after day, and it is not easy. We can only do it by faith, continuously relying on the power of His Holy Spirit.

I close with the blessed instruction that Paul gave to the church in Ephesus: “Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.” (Eph. 6:10-11, NASB). Most of the rest of Ephesians 6 gives more detail on weapons to use in this spiritual struggle we call the Christian life, and is a good passage to study and meditate on as we contemplate pressing on for God amidst life’s very real hardships. Remember, being Quiverfull is part of that spiritual struggle. Stand firm in the grace of God, and guard yourselves from idols (2 Tim 2:1; Philemon 25; 1 John 5:21).

In Him,

Bill Kinderman

Feb 18, 2009

10 Ideas: Ministering to Orphans

10 Ideas: Ministering to Orphans
FamilyLife’s Hope for Orphans

Today there are an estimated 143 million children who are orphans or are in a foster care system. Yes, it’s a big number. And it can be difficult to know how one person can make a dent in a reality so daunting. However, one Christian—every Christian—can make a difference. There are many things you can do on behalf of the orphan. Here are ten to consider:

1. Plead with the Father for them.
Pray while waiting. Go online to find a listing of children who are waiting for a home (www.adoptuskids.org or www.rainbowkids.com). Print out a picture and description of a child and tape it to your dashboard. Every time you find yourself waiting—in traffic, at a stoplight, in the drive-through—pray for this child. Plead with the Father on his or her behalf.
Pray as a family. Cut and paste a picture of a child who needs a home to make bookmarks for your entire family. Commit as a family to pray for this child every time you open your book.
Pray as a church. Organize an evening prayer vigil on behalf of orphans and waiting children. Invite other churches to join you as well. You can pray for children all over the world or you can ask your local foster care office for pictures and names of children in your city to pray for.

2. Speak up for them.
In your wallet or purse, keep a picture of a child who needs a home. When you are visiting with other believers, pull out the picture and ask if they, or someone they know, would give this child a home.
Become a Court Appointed Special Advocate. These are people from all walks of life who volunteer their time to get to know children in foster care and speak to the court on their behalf. Visit www.nationalcasa.org for more details and to find an office near you.

3. Give them what they need.
Give an orphanage a washing machine, a crib, or a package of diapers. You can designate financial gifts to be used for an item of your choice to be given to an orphanage in the country of your choice. To learn more visit www.helporphans.org and click on the “Gift from the Heart” link in the slide show at the top of the page.
Organize a drive to collect school supplies or shoes in your church or Sunday school department. To learn more visit www.gainusa.org (click on “Projects”) or www.shoesfororphansouls.org.

4. Support those who support them.
Mow the lawn of a foster family, offer to babysit, or organize a few days worth of meals when a new child is placed in their home. And make sure you tell them often that you appreciate what they do.
Throw a shower for a family adopting an older child. Often showers aren’t thought of for adoptive families, especially when the adoption involves an older child. This will serve as a great encouragement to any adoptive family.
Sponsor a local child welfare social worker. Commit to praying for him or her and send gifts or notes of encouragement.

5. Provide them a safe place.
Consider becoming a foster parent or emergency foster parent (for short-term placements). Attend an inquiry meeting at your local foster care office to learn more.
Build an orphanage—it’s not as hard as it sounds. Visit www.worldorphans.org to learn how a gift of $4,000-8,000 can cover the building costs of a new orphanage in one of dozens of countries. These homes are built in conjunction with a local church. Consider raising this money as a small group, Sunday school class, or youth ministry.

6. Go visit them.
Go on a mission trip to an orphanage. You can go on a construction trip, a medical trip, or a trip to help conduct vacation Bible school. Taking your family on an orphanage mission trip can be life changing. Visit the following websites for more information:
www.gainusa.org
www.helporphans.org
www.hopechest.org

7. Give sacrificially to them.
Support reputable orphan care organizations on an ongoing basis.
Give financially to a family in the process of adoption. See www.shaohannahshope.com and www.lifeintl.org for more information about financial assistance for adoptive families.

8. Cheer them on
Sponsor a child. This includes both monthly financial support and a ministry of ongoing encouragement through letter writing. Visit www.hopechest.org or www.visiontrust.org for more information.
Over 20,000 teenagers a year “age out” of the U.S. foster care system with no place to call home. Call your local foster care office and let them know you have the desire to be a support for a child who is aging out of foster care.

9. Give them a forever family
You can give a child a home through international, domestic, or foster care adoption. To learn more about these three types of adoption call 1-800-FLTODAY to order a free booklet entitled Welcome Home: Eight Steps to Adoption. You can also download this resource, explore other information, and identify key adoption agencies at www.HopeForOrphans.com.

10. Mobilize your church for them.
Churches all over the country are making the decision to launch ministries expressly dedicated to the orphan and waiting child. The impact has been remarkable. To learn more about how you can be the catalyst in your church for a sustained orphans ministry, visit www.shaohannahshope.org or www.HopeForOrphans.com.

God is not looking to you to solve the problem. You are only to be faithful to do what He is asking you do. These ten things represent steps of faithfulness ... some small, some big. But whatever you do, remember this promise in His Word:

And if you give yourself to the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then your light will rise in darkness and your gloom will become like midday. And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; and you will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:10-11

Feb 13, 2009

Humorous look at politics and our economy! ;-)

Stimulis: Because all economies have performance issues! Are you an economy with performance issues?

If you find it hard to achieve and maintain growth, maybe Stimulis is right for you.
Take Stimulis once every election cycle or whenever you're in need of economic enhancement. "Stimulis" is written and produced by Ted Balaker, and edited by Alex Manning.


And last but not least..
The Obamasburg Address
Washington DC
February 12, 2009

Three weeks and two days ago our community organizers and voter fraud operatives brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Socialism, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created to be subservient to their government.

Now we are engaged in a great class war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave up their individual liberty that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The gullible voters, living and dead, who were bamboozled here, have consecrated it, far above the diminished power of the people to detract.

The media will little note, nor long remember what we are actually doing here, nor will it ever admit what they did here. It is for us the powerful centralized government, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so fraudulently advanced.

It is rather for us, the ones we have been waiting for, to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these uneducated, unskilled masses we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these useful idiots shall not have voted, however many times, in vain -- that this nation, under Me, shall have a new birth of HopenchangeTM -- and that government of the lobbyists, by the politically-connected, for the career politicians, shall not perish from the earth." by Bruce over here..

If you have time, this isn't funny, just sad...

Feb 10, 2009

25 similarities between America and Nazi Germany!

Let's be informed! Please listen to this message on the uncanny similarities between the United States and Nazi Germany. How important it is to have a live out our biblical worldview.
http://www.worldviewradio.com/episode.php?EpisodeID=10541

Feb 1, 2009

RECAP of The Pearl Seminar


I attended a seminar by "The Pearls." I enjoyed going. Hubby liked it too. We use great discernment whenever we read/ or receive advice from "parenting experts." We loved hearing from Debi Pearl. She is such a sweet lady. The photo included is my friend Rhonda ( Jews For Jesus, Debi Pearl, and I. Hubby had to work Saturday so I had to take all 4 kiddos with me. That was an adventure! Mike Pearl is much better in person than in TTUAC. But I wonder how much of that is just that his kids are having kids and with age he's mellowed out? I loved his emphasis on enjoying and loving your husband and children, doing fun adventurous activities as a family, lowering your standards if it's what it takes to be content. I have learned that too. I tend to be VERY perfectionist in marriage and child raising. I used to be very upset that my hubby didn't do devotions with the family as often as I'd like, or lead the neighborhood kids in prayer/bible studies, not recognizing that he encourages and supports them while their own parents often neglect them, and models a godly father. God encouraged me to love what he DOES DO! And I love that man so much. Mike Pearl had wonderful grandfatherly encouraging wisdom.

I am a perfectionist parent. <-- hard to break habit.. My kids are awesome and if they had a bad attitude or just whined, I'd act like my kids were the worst in the world! My hubby would laugh as I'd be like " YOU ARE 4 YEARS OLD! WHAT are you THINKING??? " this would send him into fits of laughter as he pointed out how ridiculous I'd sound! ;-) What DOES bother me is that he mentioned there and in the Joy of training videos, "we are not perfect, but we want perfect kids." That makes me uncomfortable. WE are sinful and imperfect. How dare we think our children won't have faults? He may have been facetious at saying that, but sorry to say, many people are STUPID and will blindly follow anything someone says. I have seen this first hand. I can name many parents that have blindly followed a scheduling method with nursing that are SO surprised when their babies wean by 6 or 9 months. If that was natural, God would have sent babies out of the womb with a can of formula! We also were amused but shocked at how he told the story of the mother with a teen son that wouldn't turn off the computer, that out of the blue attacked her son with a switch. My hubby wanted to know why she shouldn't just walk over and turn the computer off. Seemed a bit more reasonable to me. Better yet, unplug that baby altogether!

The other thing is.. out of our little group, there seemed to be a difference of opinion of what he said about pointing a gun at a child that wouldn't stop touching an object. Some heard that he pointed a 45, and some heard that he used his finger AS a 45. I'm hoping he meant his finger! That just wouldn't FLY over here in California ;-) I was able to cull some great encouraging info. Some of it will not fly in our home. I will NOT switch my infants anytime soon. I also didn't like that he mentioned switching the baby on the head or anywhere flesh was exposed. Mark my words... There is going to be some IDIOT that will abuse there child via a head injury that will be saying "but Michael Pearl told me so!" There are plenty of places to spank/switch a child, the head really shouldn't be one of them. I also didn't like the whole thing about you must WIN in some sort of battle with your children. I don't feel I'm at war with my kids... or us against them, so that didn't apply to my family. It may be helpful to someone though.

I was sort of bothered when afterward someone who was clearly QF asked what his take on birth control was. He actually advocated the use of birth control, his mother had diabetes and would have died had she not used it. He said his wife used it also. I was very surprised by that! I wonder if Nancy Campbell knows that. My problem with that is many folks will rather ask a Christian guru about what to do with huge life changing decisions and not seek the Lord once they get an answer they were hoping to hear. ( see post)I have listened numerous times on pastors perspective or other like shows and not once have I EVER heard of a pastor saying "well you're called to present your body as a living sacrifice right? Or what does the bible say about children? Or who determines the course of your life, you or God? or didn't you say at conversion that God was to take over control of your life? Do you think you are keeping with that? " I heard a week ago or so, Brian Broderson say BC is fine and the other guy chimed in that if you have children and can't provide for them your no better than an infidel, so don't have to many children or your in danger of being an infidel. ARG!!! NOTHING abut how many forms of BC are abortificients, nothing! Nothing about trusting in the Lord with all our hearts and not leaning on our own understanding, that He will supply all your needs, NOTHING about Children being an inheritance or like arrows in the hands of a mighty warrior or what the Bible actually SAYS about children! I know tons of Christians that use BC because they don't search scriptures or the Lord and a famous pastor may have told them its ok. I think the Lord calls us to "DO HARD THINGS " which may involve dying to self and trusting in God to plan your family. I also knew that every excuse people use for birth control are the same one used to get an abortion! Think about it!

I really hope that folks will prayerfully glean the info and use God's word and the spirit as their guide. I have several friends that used the Pearls that are now doing other things though they adhered to it meticulously for years. There children are getting worse with lying and being defiant at a time when "supposedly" the need for spanking should be sparse! I have also met some very sweet kids that had parents that used and are using the Pearls. I'm guessing it depends on the parents leaning and trusting on the Lord to guide them and what might work for a particular situation. It is better to know your children have issues and work on them than to think children are really obedient and be fooled to their true heart condition. I mention that as I do believe that is your only PULL with your children is that you can beat them into submission then I feel sorry for you when your children are too big to spanked! I think of friends that brag that there kids obey because they'll get one heck of a spanking therefore they have an "obedient" child. If that's the only reason your kiddos are obeying I'd start praying NOW for deliverance and guidance! That us not a true heart change at all.

It would seem that the Lord may not have the same things in mind for every child. I'm sure that if the Lord wanted us all to start swatting our infant X amount of times with X object, he would have specified it very specifically as He did with many other things in Leviticus etc. I do LOVE the Good and Evil work that they are doing. I also got to ask him a few questions afterward and liked his response. I asked what he thought I should do as I have a family member that does immoral stuff and constantly tries to tell me that it's right and God calls them to do it it, then if I show scripture showing otherwise, they say "you are not honoring me, the bible says honor your father and mother."

He mentioned an article in last months issue about it and said not to compromise and to limit my time with them ( like holidays) I asked what he thought about them trying to sabotage the godly way we seek to raise our kids. He mentioned laying down the law by saying this is how we are raising our children, he is WHY we do it, (we'll be doing this after your dead) we will not change it, but we need you to know if you don't respect that and sabotage it we will be forced to break fellowship with you. I honestly think some in my family would do all they can so that my children will rebel, just so they can say that all I do for my children was in vain, and to feel better about the things they do or fail to do with their own children. I'd LOVE it if EH would do a seminar with the Campbell's. Imagine folks lining up to hear about the JOY of motherhood and being Keepers of your home! Or what about what God says about children, nursing, raising kids, adoption, etc?

Atheism-Pull the Plug

Unless someone care's

Unless someone care's

Compassion Verse

"Lifehouse Anything Skit"

Our Mighty Arrows

Our Mighty Arrows